Live Forum: Music Victoria

Greetings, M+Ners.

Welcome Patrick. Let’s get the ball rolling by asking what it is Music Victoria actually does?

We represent and advocate on behalf of the contemporary music industry in Victoria across all genres.

Hey Patrick! My question's about financial viability of music. most of live music is (I think?) sustained by alcohol sales or government funding. Do you think this is working at present, or should we be looking for other models? As an optional bonus question, are there any good alternative models you've seen at work in emerging live music projects?

what does 'contemporary' music mean?

good question flukazoid!

Do you think the paying public will ever financially support music properly? Or will musicians forever be doomed to battle disgruntled neighbours for the right to perform at venues manned by attendance-anxious publicans to crowds of stingey, entitled boners who gripe at paying more than $10 for a local band despite all the time they've spent rehearsing, money they've sunken into recording, and so forth? Also how important r blogs 2 connecting 2 ur community?

more good questions from anon and untold. let's just give Patrick a few minutes to reply to each one.

Hi flukazoid. The crux of the problem is that musicians are being the same (or are charging the same price for gigs) whether they are playing their first gig or are established acts. In France, for instance, if an artist can prove that they are a 'professional' musician (have played a certain number of gigs, released a certain number of albums) they receive tax concessions from the government. We are working with APRA at the moment to lobby the government to offer similar tax concessions as it does with the film industry.

Whoops, I mean ''the problem is that musicians are being paid the same''.

Hi patrick,
Does the behavior of bands in pubs undermine the work of music Victoria in dealing with the govt or is it simply live and let live and the govt and the organisation get on with making sure the safe systems are in place to deal with behavior issues if and when they crop up?

Do you think the paying public will ever financially support 'local' music properly

Fixed.

what does 'contemporary' music mean?

We use the federal Government’s definition of 'contemporary' from its Strategic Contemporary Music Industry Plan, 2010: '
The term ‘contemporary music’ can mean a variety of things to a variety of people. For the purpose of setting the scope of this draft Strategic Plan, Australian contemporary music is defined as music that is currently being written, recorded and performed by Australians. Its genres would include (but would not be limited to) blues, country, electronic/dance, experimental, folk, funk, hiphop, jazz, metal, pop, rock, roots, and world.

With what we understand to be a relatively small staff at Music Victoria, what challenges do you experience on a daily basis with regard to paying the requisite amount of attention to all the issues facing live music today: from first amenity to income security to insurance to flight baggage allowances? Do you have a hard time arguing that musicians were there from the earliest days, dancing in the shadows?

Meanwhile, residents of inner city neighbourhoods are constantly blabbing on about how they're inside the outside, by the river, used to be so calm, used to be so sane etcetera. And when I was last at a Melbourne venue, the crowd were preoccupied - more wine! - whilst the business owners, more quietly, intoned: more skin. It was so overwhelm that my singer passed out. I rushed the lady's room, took the water from the toilet, washed her feet and blessed her name. So on the other hand I can see the arguments for more peace.

Hmm, the amount a musician gets paid and the amount they get taxed is a different thing though right? are you saying that the pay amounts aren't going to change anytime soon and that taxation needs to be adjusted accordingly to compensate? Can't more money be made at the source end?

Hi Patrick. Any movement on first amenity laws at all? This issue seems to have been dead in the water for a while now. How big a priority is it for MV?

What would you say your top priorities as an organisation are right now?

Do you think the paying public will ever financially support music properly?

In Victoria, like many other states, supply of music far outweighs demand, which dictates that the price will usually be undervalued.
A lot of bands such as the Cat Empire and Graveyard Train for example, have been incrementally increasing their door charge as their fanbases grow. Yet there are other bands that have never been able to pull a crowd or diversify their fanbase. They may have to re-evaluate their approach.... or get some lessons.

How much can Music Victoria do — and how much are you simply dependent on musicians, music-friendly residents and venue people (amongst others) standing up and saying: ''Hey! Now we won't be scarred like that!'' whilst licensing bodies and apartment developers sit and earn the ransom from up there?

As for disgruntled neighbours, we are currently working on a policy position on the Agent of Change issue to take to the Premier's Live Music Roundtable that will hopefully put the onus on the newer occupant, and give legislative teeth to protect existing venues in cultural clusters.

Hi Bowie. Does the behavior of bands in pubs undermine the work of music Victoria

Do you mean the proposed 3aa amendment in regards to swearing?

Do you ever feel like the moment you make any symbolic progress with this totally hapless state government, you can feel the penny-pinching imperative coming back again like a rolling thunder chasing the wind? Do you ever feel like the government are not engaging with you in earnest, and experience a sense of your intentions falling to the floor?

Do you mean the proposed 3aa amendment in regards to swearing?

He means Teenage Mothers and nangs and backflips I think.

Yeah I mean punk bands being crazy attention seeking, bouncers and general messiness at pubs. Does it undermine your work or just another day?

Hi untold/animals.
With what we understand to be a relatively small staff at Music Victoria, what challenges do you experience on a daily basis with regard to paying the requisite amount of attention to all the issues facing live music today.

Yes, we are a small team of two staff with a load of volunteers - our board, the Victorian Music Council, the Education Advisary Committee, and the Student Committe - as well as regular part-time volunteers. We have a five year strategic plan to guide us and to ensure we don't deviate from the path, and we also try to effect change that will have far-reaching benefits to assist as many constituents as possible.
As for challenges, we receive a lot of individual inquiries. We try to direct more people to our FAQs on our website and via ours and other organisations regular professional development workshops on pertinent topics.

There seems to be a heap of money spent on preserving old musical mediums such as ballet, opera, classical etc. Why isn't there as much worth placed on creating new music for the 21st century? I'm talking in terms of both funding and widespread public interest.

Hi happycow.
Any movement on first amenity laws at all? This issue seems to have been dead in the water for a while now. How big a priority is it for MV? What would you say your top priorities as an organisation are right now?

First Amenity is one of our top priorities for the year. At the moment we have a sub-committee formulating a policy position to take to the first Premier's Live Music Roundtable meeting (forthcoming). This was a pre-election committment that they have lagged on but they have confirmed that ''it is imminent''. We've made it very clear to the Minister for Consumer Affairs that this is the top priority for the year, and it's not going to go away until they deal with it properly.

Keep an eye out in the Sunday Age on April 30th for an update on the issue.

Hello again,

I'm guessing this forum is part of your April membership drive, much like your appearance on RRR this morning, so to get around to that.

I'm not a musician, I'm never going to be one. What's the point of me joining Music Victoria? I've got no tuba to lug on a airline, and don't need any help managing my online presence or other forum topics.

The goals you've achieved may be of good use to some but to me they've felt very industry focused. So I'm having some difficulty seeing a good reason to pony up the cash, besides the warm glow of contributing and a chance at some prizes.

Also!
What's the best gig you've seen recently?

I guess the 3aa amendment is a fair answer actually. I would hazard a guess that it's someone to do with 'swearing in the context of a performance' so thanks for the info Patrick.

Hi superfang.

The traditional view of governments and many arts bodies is that classical music and 'heritage arts' have more worth because the level of training and committment required to become proficient is greater than banging out a few punk songs. But we argue that 'heritage music' doesn't reveal much about our cultural identity whereas contemporary music mirrors our society today. The local venues have replaced the town squares as a place for people to meet and socialise.
There is much data and research out there to support that notion that participation rates are higher for contemporary music than any other musical artform, both as performers and consumers.

Do you think contemporary/popular music is underfunded relative to the other arts? And how can the quality of new music be judged fairly when it comes to grants, etc?

Hi Patrick.

I'll admit I don't understand all of the details of my point but, to support live music could the Gov. introduce a rebated system along the lines of , venue tops up door takings by $2 per payer to a gig, venue claims this amount back from Gov. Gov then offsets this against taxes collected from alcohol sales.

Seems to me like a workable way of supporting the live music sector.

Lol good answer.

Can I just ask as a terrible joiner of any organization, I'm awful only I guess because I like feeling independent, and dont like alienating anything, but can I ask just for the info on how to join, how much, and other relevant information.

I'd like to say good luck and thank you
Bowie.

Bowie: go here for membership details.

Hi anonymous.

From day one in our strategic plan, we chose to use the term ''music community'' rather than ''music industry'' to define our constituents. For the 20,000 people who marched in the SLAM Rally, we reckon that if they were prepared to get out there and march for their music on a workday afternoon, then they would be prepared to pay the $33 membership to see a peak body ensure that their musicians are looked after and their venues preserved.

We do have a bunch of money-can't-buy prizes as part of our current membership drive such as coffee and biscotti with M+N fave Henry Wagons, and free entry to a closing wrap party which is shaping up to be something you do not want to miss. If you invest in Music Victoria now, rest assured in a few years time music fans will have a stronger community and better options.

classical music and 'heritage arts' have more worth because the level of training and committment required to become proficient is greater than banging out a few punk songs

Man, there's a lot of territory between those two points though. It'd be good to dispel the notion of that being what modern art consists of rather than just working to justify its existence.

I guess my point is - all modern art isn't a transient backdrop to society. Some (a lot?) will actually be held onto, looked back upon and remembered for its own merits - not just as something people gathered around.

I'm sure you probably agree with this, I'm more making the observation as your choice of words (for me) undersells modern music's importance. I'd love to hear from others if they feel differently though.

We’ll have to wind it up there. Patrick will endeavour to answer all remaining Qs at a later date and we'll publish them soon.

Thanks for participating everyone and good luck with your membership drive Music Vic!

Thanks M+N, and thanks to all who have signed up as members so far.

Does that mean it's play-time now!?

We do have a bunch of money-can't-buy prizes as part of our current membership drive such as coffee and biscotti with M+N fave Henry Wagons

If I join, can I pay extra to not hear Wagons?

just a reminder: if you have any pressing Qs, write them here today and Music Vic will answer at a later date.

How much has your background in journalism benefitted you personally in being able to explain these issues to dickheads like us, and to mediate the interests of musicians, publics and politicians? Lightning crashes.

take a bow, untold.

Thanks m&n, thanks music victoria for working for the good of music and freedom of expression.

Do you think Goëthe's success will translate to better outcomes for Victorian musicians overseas?