Songs: Searching For A Sound

Max Doyle laments the considerable delay for Songs’ second album and opens up to DOUG WALLEN about fortune tellers and jealousy.

[Historical image is withheld pending rights review.] Remember Songs? Sydney band? Released a killer first album back in 2009? Ring any bells?

Well, whatever way, they’re back. Their second album is a very different experience than the first, eschewing wallflower Kiwi jangle for more extroverted jamming and rock-outs. It’s shot through with flux, documenting the change in line-up from departed drummer Steve Uren and guitarist Jeff Burch to current drummer Ben James (ex-Talons) and guitarist Cameron Emerson-Elliot (Community Radio, Youth Group). It also finds singer/guitarist Max Doyle devoting himself wholly to Songs while singer/bassist Ela Stiles now divides her time with the rising trio Bushwalking.

Coupling all of that with the long wait on the part of the band’s label, Popfrenzy – “It just got delayed like crazy,” says Doyle – Malabar feels caught between two (at least) different eras of the band. Even Doyle judges it now as a cryptic bridge between modes, a snapshot of them searching for a place in an Australian indie marketplace now crammed with jangly guitars.

Luckily Doyle has maintained his dry humour and, reaching back to the band’s first EP, has begun tapping once more into the simplicity of the earliest Songs material.

The album’s been finished how long now?
Well, we recorded it in February last year. And it was mixed pretty soon after that. The frustration with that is we’ve been sitting on these now for, some of them, a couple of years. To be creative, you’ve gotta keep moving. To have this forced situation where you’ve got to have the discipline of sitting on the same thing, when all you want to do is rip them up and move on, is quite frustrating. And the band’s evolved quite a lot in that time, ’cause we’d only just started to get to know each other with the new guys.

When exactly did they come on board?
I think it was the year before we did the album, but it had been another fractured year. I think Ela was away for quite a bit of it. So it was really stop-start. And Jules [Ferrari] was in the band [as] keyboard player. She joined and then she left. It’s all vague, the last few years.

Have the two new guys contributed to the songwriting, or is it still you and Ela as the core of that?
There’s a bit. Some of the songs on the album just came from jamming. Before it used to be more like I’d bring a song and [Stiles and former members Steve Uren and Jeff Burch] would sort of deconstruct it. We’d jam it but it would just get build from there. With these guys, as we were getting to know, we’d start off jamming and then try and mould it into a song around that. So in that respect they contributed. But not in actual song form, like bringing in songs to the band.

I’m still waiting for that to happen, because I know Cam’s a good songwriter. He’s got this other thing going, Community Radio. He can clearly write good songs … I think still, even after all this time, it doesn’t feel like he owns the band. Bands are funny, y’know. [Laughs] The relationships. It’s probably quite common, if you join a band, that you don’t feel like you have the same ownership of it. There’s probably a bit of that going on.

Has Ela being in Bushwalking affected Songs at all, either just the time thing or influencing the music?
Yeah, well, on a positive side, she’s tonnes more confident in herself as a musician. When she joined Songs, she’d never been in a band or played with anyone before. So we sort of got that out of her and started her up. But then it was also pretty brutal for her, confidence-wise, because the other guys – and me, I guess – just kept her in line almost [musically]. [Laughs] Which sounds bad. She had no influences or anything. She just came into it, so it was a really learning thing for her. But joining Bushwalking just opened things up for her, I think. They work with her because they like her as [an established] musician, so they’re on an even level. And her confidence just grew so much.

“She’s a young musician and needs more than just Songs in her future. [But] when they get attention, I get jealous.”

But then on another level it’s just been a complete pain in the arse. [Laughs] ’Cause they’re in Melbourne and we’re in Sydney! I think people are used to it in Melbourne, because everyone plays in different bands. And I’m sure when they’re trying to book things and make any plans, they’re just used to having to book around [it]. I can’t imagine how the guys with three or four bands do it. It’s tough. Even just trying to book these launch shows, [Bushwalking are] doing Golden Plains and we had to shuffle things. But I don’t begrudge her that. Y’know, she’s a young musician and needs more than just Songs in her future. It’s just annoying when they’re splitting times. When they get attention, I get jealous. [Laughs] I’m being really honest today! No, I don’t…

No, I understand what you’re saying.
It’s good. It is really good. It’s just for them some things can be moving faster and then for Songs I’m like, “We’ve gotta be doing that too!”

Whenever you start comparing the pace of two bands, it’s tricky. They’re always their own thing, no matter how long they’ve been going or what their circumstances are.
Yeah, and you can see it … when Songs started, you get that [attention] for a year or so and you benefit from buzz and you’re sort of new and everything comes really easy to you. Then, if you’ve been around for a while and you haven’t been doing much, you’ve gotta work hard to get that attention again. And then you get Bushwalking, who are more where Songs were years ago, and I can see that buzz happening again and how easy it is for them to get that attention.

[Historical embedded media is withheld pending rights review.]

Where did you record this album?
We just hired a studio in Leichardt, I think it was. I always get the inner west of Sydney mixed up. We got this guy Mike Burnham, who’s actually based in England now but used to have a studio in Sydney. We got him because he’d done our first EP. We kind of didn’t know where to turn, and I’d always liked the sound on that first EP. It was really simple but … it was just a good sound. He was coming to town so we got Mike. Y’know, there’s so many different ways you can turn. I just thought I’d keep it close to home. It kind of worked and kind of didn’t, in a way. Just ’cause we didn’t get it mixed while he was here, so he did the mixes in England and was sending them back. That seemed doable when it was put to us, but it’s really not a good way to mix the record. So y’know, part of the process.

We’ve just done some recording recently where we play the song twice and record it on the third take in full. I enjoyed that much more. The results are more pleasing. It was interesting to do things in a drawn-out way, but I don’t think it suited us.

[Historical embedded media is withheld pending rights review.]02 Boy Girl by Popfrenzy

Some of the music surprised me on the record. It’s more rock now and less jangly. There are almost prog guitars at the peak of ‘Boy/Girl’ and some Kraut-y stuff in the title track. And some pretty heavy psych bits. When did you detect a sea change there?
I think that really came from [when] we started doing these jams. We had keyboards so the sound got fuller anyway. And because Cam can really play guitar. If you let him loose, it’s awesome. We were having these jams and it was just like, when you realise you can jam and make those sounds, you’re just like, “Oh my god, this is incredible!” after playing a really jangly and restrained thing. I think we just got carried away! [Laughs] It’s lucky we made the record when we did, ’cause we just got stupider and stupider [from there]. At that time I think we were just amazed that we could make those sounds.

Also, for me, I know I was thinking that I wanted to get bigger and sound bigger, or at least have the ability to have more contrast in the sound. If we’re going to sound little, sound really little. If we’re going to sound big, sound massive. I was imagining us playing big festivals. [Laughs] Since then I don’t think we’ve played a single festival. Also, when we were doing the more jangly stuff, especially in Sydney, we popped up and kind of stood out. There wasn’t much of that around at the time. When people are saying Flying Nun and picking up all those influences, that seemed fresh then. Now it just seems the starting point for any band starting up. I wanted to move on from that.

“It’s not a natural, instinctive record like the first one was. It’s maybe just searching for a sound.”

When you started, it was really interesting to hear a young band channelling Flying Nun a bit. But now it’s everywhere. Within just a few years it’s been a big change, the prominence of that sound.
When we started, I hadn’t played in bands for decades almost. People actually said, “You don’t sound like anything else. How come?” It was because I hadn’t been listening to anything else, or seen any local bands or anything. This time around I see bands all the time and I actually made a conscious effort to not sound [like them]. When I listen to the record now, I’m not sure what it is. It’s not a natural, instinctive record like the first one was. It’s maybe just searching for a sound. If I get another album done after this one, this will be the one in between, just trying to find the place for the band.

When you play songs from the first album now, do they sound quite different with different people playing them and all the time that’s passed?
Yeah. We only play a couple of songs from the [first] album, and we just play them in the set to kick it off. They sound pretty close to how they sound on the album, but a couple weeks ago we played a song off the first EP, which was even simpler. It was so nice, just fresh air. We sort of tangled ourselves up in knots and then it was just like, “Oh yeah, that’s all it needs to me. Simple guitar and a nice vocal.” It sounds funny, but I think the beginning is a nice point for us to go back to now and just try and use that as a point to move on [from].

[Historical embedded media is withheld pending rights review.]05 The Country by Popfrenzy

Is ‘The Country’ inspired by more and more friends of yours moving out of the city?
It started off like that. I think almost daily about moving out to the country, so I’ve got that dialogue going on in my head. But whenever I get away, I feel really uneasy. I imagine the utopian thing, but I’ve spent all of my life in cities. There’s a line in it, and that’s what started me writing a song: [there] was some anecdote about some guy who was trying to get out of the city. The deeper he gets into the country, he starts pulling over his car and just smelling his exhaust. [Laughs] Just to get some sort of bearing. I feel like that, I guess.

Then it went off on a tangent. It’s a bit of a nonsense song. But that’s how it started. I love being in the city. I have the idea that I want to get away, but when I get away I need to get back fast. It’s a strange song. That’s definitely one where I was like, “Where does that come from?” Just the sound of it and everything.

[Historical embedded media is withheld pending rights review.]04 Good TImes by Popfrenzy

What about ‘Good Time’? There’s lyrics about cut throats and blood…
[Laughs] We were around some friends’ house who have kids, and I was playing a Hello Kitty guitar. So it was a strange place to start with. I was in LA last year and I went and saw a fortune teller. I’d never done that. It was kind of a joke. No, it was the year before. It just messed with my head so much that it probably opened up a lifetime of repressed, strange, spiritual thinking. And Jules, who had been in the band, just being around her, I can’t even describe it. It’s almost like a hallucination, which is what that [song] is. It’s basically about going to see this fortune teller. It got really complicated. I was imagining being at war with this person who had all this spiritual power, and maybe how I would do battle with her. I gotta look back at those lyrics.

When I write first, it just comes out as nonsense and then I try to make sense of it afterwards. But that was definitely started from that visit to the fortune teller. And y’know, I think when you get older it’s interesting. You start becoming interested in the future because it’s getting shorter. So even though that [experience] turned out really bad, I’m like, “Maybe I should go see another fortune teller.” Really not healthy.

That could be your muse, your well of inspiration.
[Laughs] Exactly. It was great having Jules in the band. You could come in after a day at work and you’d have all this workday/family stuff in your head, and Jules would be sitting there in the corner sobbing. Her fortune had come true or something and she’s predicting the world’s gonna end in three months. Fucking hell. So now she’s moved to India, where she’s studying … something.

Does someone in the band still play keyboard live?
No, no. We were going to, and then we just did a show straightaway after she left without it. It was quite good. Taking one instrument out keeps it freer, if you wanna improvise on the night. It’s just one less part. Because we’re not like genius musicians. We just thought we didn’t need it, basically. And she just put texture into the sound. I liked it, though. I liked the dynamic. It makes it fun, two girls. But she’s gone.

Well, Max, thanks a lot for talking to me again. It’s nice to finally hear a new record from you guys.
Have you listened to it? What does it sound like? [Laughs]

I was just struck by how different it sounded. And I hadn’t listened to the other record in a long time, so it was like starting all over again.
Yeah, yeah. Well, listen out for our next record.

In five years.
Yeah. Then it’ll make sense.

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‘Malabar’ is out now through Popfrenzy. Launch dates below.

Thurs, April 11 – GoodGod, Sydney, NSW [w/The Native Cats + Model Citizen]
Fri, April 12 – Primitive Room, Brisbane, QLD [w/Blank Realm + Scraps]
Sat, April 13 – Workers Club, Melbourne, VIC [w/Terrible Truths + School of Radiant Living]