‘I’ve Seen China Break People’: Xiao Zhong On Touring Asia

Based in Shanghai and half of the band Pairs, the expat now known as Xiao Zhong has helped many small Aussie bands tour China in recent years. Interviewed by MITCHELL JUDGE, he overflows with prickly, funny advice about live music in his corner of the world.

[Historical image is withheld pending rights review.] Xiao Zhong is a Melbourne expat who lends his drumming and self-described terrible singing to Shanghai two-piece Pairs. He has also helped a number of Australian bands navigate the tough Chinese scene, including Kikuyu, Jamie Hutchings, Dead Farmers and Die! Die! Die!. Ahead of his return to Australia to play a handful of solo shows, we exchanged emails to discuss the differences between touring Australia and China, and why China can be both the best and worst place for a band to take on.

What was the reason you moved from Melbourne to China in the first place?
I did a Bachelor of Education in Bendigo, the home of Blues Dog, and at the end of the fourth year, people started talking about their plans for once they finished school. A few got jobs out near mining towns, a few got pregnant and decided to stay at home writing Facebook status updates about getting ripped off by mechanics, but the vast majority kept fucking on and on about going to the UK. But to me that shit was boring, London is Melbourne Snr. and Europe is Asia for old people. Yeah it’s fun and all that shit and you can get a photo of you wearing a toga and take cheap pills, but I reckon you can have the exact same time in certain parts of Europe if you’re 18 or 58.

So I wanted to go somewhere totally different, a bit more challenging, and something that threw me out of my regional-Victorian, English-speaking comfort zone. So I applied for jobs in Japan and China. A place in Tianjin got back to me first. I got on a plane without doing much research and I’ve been here since 2008. I did one year there in Tianjin and now I’m living in Shanghai.

“Asia attracts a bunch of totally weird cunts.”

Did you always plan to be involved in the Chinese DIY scene, or how did that come about?
Nah, but I knew it would happen on some level just because it’s what I’m drawn to and what I like. At the start it was fucking hard to find the right people. It’s hard anywhere, but Asia attracts a whole bunch of totally weird cunts so I spent my first year or so in Shanghai jamming with Russian guys who would force me to eat bananas, and German guys who brought their electric kit with them to practice, and Chinese kids who only knew how to play covers of The Yeah Yeah Yeahs. Then I met F and we decided to form Pairs. We did one show and it all rolled on from there.

[Historical image is withheld pending rights review.] Pairs released another album this year. How is that project coming along?
I’m not sure where Pairs is at right now: it feels like F got a bit burnt out after we did Southeast Asia and then Vietnam. She’s probably sick of my fucking head. But we’ve done a bit for a new recording and already written songs for the one after that. The last album was that piano one Eltham Join, which I actually kind of liked, even for all the mistakes and bullshit. The one before that is odd because it’s a double record but not many people buy records in China so it was mostly for the Western market, but we aren’t touring there so it pops up on blogs and gets reviewed every so often. We probably should tour the States or something to help it along.

But fuck that, I’d rather go to Korea and do shows. Coming back to Australia will be alright; it’s odd, though, because F can’t make it so it’s just me. Well, she probably could make it but I didn’t invite her, as it’s more a family trip for my wife’s immigration to kick in. We keep getting asked to go to Australia and it might happen but, again, I’d rather go to Korea. By the way, the reason I go by Xiao Zhong now, apart from being a massive dick, is trying to keep music and work separate. Don’t want any future employers Googling my name and seeing the moronic shit I say in interviews like this. Plus, it’s easier for Chinese people to say. Plus, I’m a massive dick.

What are some of the differences between live music in Australia and China?
I remember reading a review of a My Disco show, probably on Mess + Noise actually, and people were saying it was the best thing ever and I was getting jealous. Then I found a video of it online and the camera was kind of at the side of stage, pointing at the audience and everyone was staring at their feet or on their phone and it reminded me what crowds can be like in Australia and how, for the most part, crowds are pretty attentive here and friendly and energetic. There can be a real innocence and naivety that goes from being cute when they want photos with you and applaud everything you say to frustrating as they don’t have a real point of reference and it can feel like shooting fish in a barrel.

“You play in Australia and you’ve got 40-year-old dudes coming up saying that they saw Sonic Youth in ’82 or ate cheesecake with Dinosaur Jr.”

What do you mean by that? I’m guessing that there wouldn’t be a common entry point for Western rock or punk music?
When I say fish in a barrel, sometimes it feels like I get away with more on stage because I’m a skinny little small-eared white guy using broken Chinese. That combined with the fact that a lot of the Chinese crowd aren’t super experienced. Like, you play somewhere in Australia and you’ve got 40-year-old dudes coming up saying that they saw Sonic Youth in ’82 or ate cheesecake with Dinosaur Jr. or saw Morrissey abuse the audience 20 years ago. But in China, it’s all recent history for the most part.

And how about the venues and organising shows in China?
Venues are alright: they all supply full backline so loading in and out and all that shit is easy, plus no one drives here so it’s all public transport and taxis. No illegal parking out front of Pony with your hazards on trying to drag a drum kit down the stairs. For the most part the venues are easy to work with, but you have to know how to communicate with the Chinese owner and understand where they are coming from and how they handle problems and so on.

Also, I don’t think that there is any real infrastructure, which can be a great thing, but what happens is a band can play one show here and then get invited to do festivals or big supports which most bands in other parts of the world would have to really slog it out: learn how to book tours, learn how to self-promote, and break their spine loading out a small Toyota every night. Those are the things that build a good musician and a good band. Eating shit for a while is really good for a band but sadly, especially in Shanghai, it's easy to get a show and easy to ‘climb the ranks’ with only five songs and two shows behind you. Man, I’m a bitchy prick hey.

Is there a lot of demand and interest for the shows that you’re involved in? I guess you would be aware that the supposed ‘death of live music’ is brought up a lot in Australia. Are we in a worse state than China?
I’m mostly just like an old-time phone operator. I know bands in Australia and New Zealand and I know promoters, venues and media in China and Asia, so I just put both sides in touch. There is some interest though! The Kikuyu shows in Shanghai had a lot of buzz, as did Thee Oh Sees show that I helped out with. The Bob Log III show that my friend Nathan and I did went off!

“Shanghai is trying to give birth to live music … but there’s a lot more pushing, screaming and blood needed to get the bastard out.”

There is no death of live music; right now the feeling in Shanghai is trying to give birth to live music. It’s probably crowning about now. You can see the tip, but there’s a lot more pushing, screaming and blood needed to get the bastard out. For a city of 22 million, Shanghai still only has a small handful of venues and a small dedicated audience. Castlemaine and Maldon probably have a healthier thing going on. We’ve done some bigger shows and some big festivals; done shows with Skip Skip Ben Ben, who just supported My Bloody Valentine in Taiwan. A show we played with Rebuilding the Rights of Statues had a great crowd full of Chinese kids singing along. Not to us though; good luck singing along to our shit.

So are you and the bands making much money out of touring?
I make no fucking money. I never put myself in a position to make money. Don’t want to. It’s a hobby and a labour of love and I mostly do it to give good heads a good time in a place they wouldn’t come to otherwise. I’ve got a job that pays expat salary so I’m not in a need for money. Bands can make money if they do it right, but it won’t be on their first tour. Despite China being relatively cheap hotel- and food-wise, train and plane tickets will always be the death of your wallet.

But still, come do the hard yards, meet some super nice Chinese folk, play your guts out and stay in touch. Keep updating your Chinese Twitter and Douban, keep sending emails to the people you meet, start being a pen pal and then you might get invited back for festivals or by a bigger promoter.

“Chinese promoters can’t comprehend how difficult the simple things are for those who don’t know the systems or can’t speak the language.”

I would imagine that it’s a pretty big culture shock for a lot of Australian bands that tour over there. Have you seen any bad experiences?
I’ve seen China break heaps of people! It fucking sucks, because I’ve also seen a lot of people thrive here and go home with amazing memories. At the end of the day, it generally comes down to people’s attitudes. China won’t ever pander to the artist, and Chinese bookers and promoters can’t comprehend how difficult the simple things are for those who don’t know the systems or can’t speak the language. Simple things like booking train tickets, finding a hotel that will accept foreigners and making sure you have pocket tissues, as most toilets don’t provide paper. Don’t even get me started on squat toilets. If a band is on tour here and they’re struggling, they mostly count how many days they have left. For myself, I’ve had no choice but to adapt and squat up a storm. It’s all good once you get used to it.

Did you have trouble adapting when you first got to China?
Not really, actually. For the first year shit was way different but it was all part of the adventure. The culture shock only began once I settled in and started trying to do shit I was doing back home. The biggest shock was moving from Tianjin to Shanghai. Tianjin was filled with people being really hospitable and accommodating, but Shanghai is just so fast-paced and has way more scam artists. Plus, I moved to Shanghai to start living with my now wife, and those first three months of actually living with someone of a completely different culture was a brain fuck. It’s hard enough moving in with your partner when they are from the same town. Women! Am I right? Nah, I’m wrong. Guys are fuckheads.

How do you see the future of Australian bands in China?
My take on touring is that it should be fun. The chances of you becoming a huge fucking band and making a living off your music are slim-to-none and even if you do, it’s only a matter of time before your bassist leaves and everyone realises your singer is an arrogant dick screwing you out of songwriting royalties. So have some fun and go to places a bit off the beaten path. Make touring an experience and a bit of a holiday with a purpose as opposed to trying to get a bunch of jaded fucks in to a shitty club in Los Angeles on a Wednesday night.

I’d encourage most bands to look at touring China and the rest of Asia. If you’re in a hardcore band, Indonesia is a must! Touring that place is like no other. Don’t come to China if you are looking to be pampered and need ice in your freshly squeezed orange juice though.

[Historical embedded media is withheld pending rights review.]

Has there been any success of Chinese bands coming to Australia?
Well, P.K. 14 had a good time in Australia as did Carsick Cars. Hedgehog had a swell time as well, but that was a lot to do with the support of the Regurgitator boys and Julian Wu, who was going promo-fanboy nuts.

It’s quite hard for Chinese people to get visas; the amount of paperwork and money needed is fucked. My wife had to freeze a bank account with over AU$10,000 for a year just to apply for a visa. It’s well hard for bands to get there. I still wish that Australian festivals would start looking at Chinese bands to bring over. A lot of these bands would go down a treat at Splendour or Meredith. Fuck, some of the bands could make Blueprint work. And it would be nice for the audience to see something different from The Living End at every festival.

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Xiao Zhong will play LongPlay in Melbourne on Friday, July 5 with Wil Wagner (The Smith Street Band) and Marcus Hobbs (East Brunswick All Girls Choir). More info here. He will also play Black Wire Records in Sydney on Monday, July 8 with Peter Black (The Hard Ons) and Mr. Beautiful. Both gigs are entry by donation.